All right, everybody. Season two, episode 21 coming off of game one, Indiana Pacers versus the Boston Celtics. A choke job from your guy, Tyrese Halliburton, a choke job from your guy, my guy, when he doesn't play well, we still win game seven. Your guy, when he doesn't play well, turns the ball over and you lose. Uh, just saying, we're going to jump right into it. the game tonight, and we're gonna talk a lot about really the final teams that are remaining. I know it's been a few days, but anybody that's been listening to us, I know they're gonna want to catch up here, hear what we think, because they know that me, I am Mr Minnesota. My Timberwolves are going to the finals. I've been waiting for this for my whole life, waiting for this my whole life, and it's finally gonna happen. But before we get into any Minnesota conversations, we have to talk about the game that we just watched. Indiana had it. They literally had it and they choked it away, handed the game to him, handed the game to the number one team in NBA. The only thing, only thing I needed the Pacers to do was just steal one game. Oh my gosh. You steal, you steal one of those games and then they're bound to win one at home. Yes. Yes, my thing with this series was if the Pacers were going to not win a game at TD Garden, then it was going to be a five game series. They were going to steal one at home, go back. If they could have stolen that, you go back to Boston and this could go seven, just like it went in New York. Yeah, it could be 2 2. 2 2, then it's a 3 2, you get one back at home, game seven. In TD garden, you know, but they lost this game and we'll see how game two goes. But this, they gave the, they gave the game to the number one team. You just handed it to them. So many opportunities to close the game out and they just gave it to them. And people are going to talk about the foul, uh, the free throw line disparity, but, uh, that's just style of basketball. At this point, it's the same thing with the Lakers. Uh, the way the Pacers play is, you know, They shoot a lot. They drive and but, but they got, they drive. They didn't, they didn't, they didn't get a free, they shot a free throw at with five minutes and I think 56 seconds in the first quarter and didn't shoot another free throw until the fourth quarter. It's'cause they don't drive at the hoop like that. But they've got bigs that are like, what are we, what are we talking about? Miles, Turner shoots the ball. What are we talking about? They've got guys that are shooting in the paint. No they don't. They've guys that drive the ball. They do. No, they don't. They really don't. They do. Oh my gosh. Okay. The free throw disparity should not be that bad. No, it shouldn't, but the Celtics, it should be in Boston more than's favor. It should be in Boston's favor, but it should never be that bad. Yes. I mean, it was what, when it, when it mattered, the free throw disparity was, it was three to 24, I think, or something like that. It was horrendous. Horrendous. Shouldn't be that way. Pacers blew it, regardless. Tyrese Hallenburton blew it. The Andrew Nemhart blew it. They, they had opportunities to win, and they turned the ball over. So, shout out to Jalen Brown for hitting one of the most clutch shots I've ever seen. Um, but yeah, that's, it was a great game. First half was beautiful. They end, they end going even. Uh, but, you just, you know. I text you about this. You just kind of feel like the Pacers are just playing catch up the whole time. Even when they're up, you're still super scared. And I think experience started to show towards the end of the game. Yeah, so, so here's the free throw disparity, right? So, the Indiana Pacers shot 9 for 10. Boston shot 24 for 30. I'm okay if that's somewhere close. If, if Boston's gonna go 24 for 30, they're gonna get 30 attempts. I think that Indiana at least should be somewhere between 16 and 21. That's just how I feel. I do believe that Boston style of play is they're going to be shooting more free throws. I mean, you can look at one matchup in particular when Jalen Brown is being guarded by Tyrese Halliburton. The guy can't defend him. The guy can't defend him. It's like, it's like when your big brother, it's like when you're playing on, you're playing dunk ball with your big brother. He's a senior and you're in seventh grade. That's what it looks like. Like he just gets pushed around. Uh, If there's one thing that Tyrese Halliburton should learn coming out of this series, uh, it should be what a weight room looks like. Because that's what he needs to do, is lift some weights. He is, he's just not strong enough to go against the Boston Celtics. If you're playing the Knicks, and it's a lot of 6'3 guys, Cause they're running the Villanova guys. You can, you're somewhat viable. But when you play Boston and they're going to, you're going to be switching on Tatum and Jalen Brown. I'm not saying you have to be jacked. That's not what I'm saying. But you can't get pushed like that when you're as tall as he is. You can't get pushed like that. He's not T. J. McConnell, okay? And I don't even think T. J. would get pushed like that. So, so for me, he's gotta hit the weight room. He needs to get some composure. Because the two turnovers just dribbling the basketball, they broke the back of the team. I'm telling you. And I didn't even think they were going to be in a position to win the game when I saw, you know, Boston jumps out to a 12 run. That's that's we see this kind of thing happened in the NBA where you're playing the law of averages. Maybe one team comes out and they make six straight shots and you miss five straight and then they miss four in a row. You make five in a row and it evens out more often than not. And so that wasn't surprising, but they never could take the lead in the first half. And I thought that was going to continue. But you know what? Boston's going to Boston and Tatum is going to Tatum. He didn't want to win that game for him. He didn't even shoot the last shot to send them to overtime. They, they embattled it to Jalen Brown. And so in true Boston fashion, they gave Indiana a chance to really win this game. And, uh, they had the chance, they had the opportunity to seize their moment. They just didn't do it. They, they really didn't do it. It seemed like the moment was too big, too bright for that team. And what's hard is that was when you were going to surprise Boston. Right? Like, that was the game where you snuck up on them. In game two, they're gonna be ready to punch you in the face. Like, that was the ch that was your chance to win one of the first two games. Cause if you thought it was tough there, if you thought that moment was difficult now, wait till you see what happens in a couple days. Wait till you see what happens on Thursday. It's gonna be a lot harder, period. And so it was just crushing because the everyone and their dog in the media anyone on Twitter nobody believes the Pacers are winning this series and they had a chance to really punch the number one team in the NBA in the mouth and they just whiffed. They missed. I still can't believe it. It unraveled so quickly, so quickly, I, the first Tyree's turnover was like, Oh, here we go. Like he, he dribbled the ball and just kicked it off of his leg. Yeah, just kicked it off his leg. And it's like, there's 27 seconds on the clock. It wasn't even that much ball pressure. There was zero ball pressure. He was bringing the ball up the court on a rebound. It wasn't even, They were going to have to come and foul him or wait for, all you have to do is hold on the ball. That's it. And okay. But what about the second one? Once again, it was not much ball pressure from Drew Holiday. And then he just, He got scared of Drew Holiday. He just, He got scared of Drew Holiday. What? That's, and then you see him, he, he tried to play it off. Like he got pushed. I don't know if you saw that, but the ball went out of bounds and he, Leaped into the commentators and then, oh, yeah, dude, oh, bad, it was, it was only a matter of time before a team figured out that Hallie can't guard only a matter of time. Dude, he cannot. He got through it in the first round because of injuries. You got through it in the second round because of injuries. You get here, this whole starting lineup can attack you. They're just looking for a switch. And not only that, uh, Aaron, Aaron Naismith fouled out of the game. And that was, that was, that was a tough one because he's their athletic defender. Yeah. Yeah. And then the play where, uh, Nam heart falls to the ground. Jason Tatum gets that and one that that killed it because Naismith was playing great defense. He's very physical and then he fouls out of the game and it just, it just goes downhill from there. Well, and now, and now Tatum, he, like he survives what would have been so much, he would have gotten destroyed online. If that game would have ended at Indiana wins because he was passive. He was not trying to take over the moment. He had the bad turnover to drew holiday. Like I said, he wasn't even shooting that shot at the end of regulation. And then he gets the three pointer and overtime wide open top of the key. And man, did that make such a difference? There's nothing anybody can say is he had that one moment. He had that one moment. I think. More than 35, but it's 36, 36, but it went to overtime. And again, this is the 26th regulation for him. He goes to the Eastern Conference finals like every other year. So, oh yeah, the people are going to talk about like, oh, how do, why don't we expect this from any other player? It's because he came into a good situation with the Celtics. This is this is what we expect from the guy. So if he they lose the game, it's it's because of him that we know that. Tyrese Halliburton was a minus 11 plus minus. TJ McConnell's minutes were great. Oh, dude. Yeah. Seems like they always are. Six for 11, 13 points. It's, it's, he's not getting the looks he did last round. Like he's not as open when he's shooting the ball, which, which is to be expected, but man, he's such a high value piece for that 30 footer. You can knock down a 30 footer, which he did multiple times. So this was the game to win Boston kind of off their stuff. They haven't played this team. That was the opportunity to steal one and it was, it was, and I think you can, I'd expect to see a double digit win from Boston game to statement win. Yeah, yeah, I think it's gonna be, it'll be a big win. Indiana, I believe will win a game. No matter what happens, they're still gonna win a game. Boston's gonna Boston. He can do it. They can definitely do it. They're gonna have a night. They're gonna have a night. I mean, today they went 15 for 45 from 333%. It's I mean, that's below average for for NBA numbers. But I think they're gonna have a real stinker where they'll be in the 20s and they'll lose. That's normally the barometer for what happens in Boston. If they are missing threes, you can win the game. And case in point tonight, case in point tonight, but Once again, nobody expected Tyrese Halliburton to, to be here. Nobody thought the Pacers would be here, uh, and Boston didn't expose them. They exposed themselves, but this is a learning opportunity for that franchise. It really is. This is, this is the time for them to, to, to learn to figure this stuff out, uh, because they shouldn't be here and they had a chance to punch the number one seed and they missed it. Unfortunate. In other news, on the other side of the bracket, We have an incredible matchup. My Minnesota Timberwolves! Uh, on their finals run against the Dallas Mavericks, Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving, who apparently is Unk now. Who apparently the young people are calling Unk now. It's crazy. Uh, Roman, what, what are, what are you looking forward to the most from this Timberwolves Mavericks matchup? The thing I'm excited for is to see the matchups tomorrow. I've been running it through my head and I mean, the Timberwolves basically have two centers starting when we think about it. Yes, no, for sure. And if the Mavericks start their two centers, obviously their rookie, Derek Lively and Daniel Gaffer, who do they put at the three? This is my thing, because Derek Jones Jr. has been playing extremely well for them, but so has P. J. Washington. He's been hitting timely shots, and they've both been just their primary defenders. But who knows? It's unpredictable. They could just go the small ball lineup, continue to do it, and take the possible loss. You know, put a P. J. Washington, just put him on Karl Anthony Towns. I don't know what they're going to do for these matchups. I don't know what they're going to do for it. You can't play two centers if you're Dallas because you they don't have anybody in rotation. Who are they supposed to sub Luca? Kyrie can't attack either. I was gonna kick it out to lively because Maxie Klieber isn't playing. I mean, he's a power forward Unless he unless his shoulder like he's out for the season. I think he's done for yeah, like I'm, I'm looking at the roster right now. And the only other center that I can see on this list is Dwight Powell. And I haven't seen that guy play in a minute. Keep them out the rotation. As soon as they got Gafford, he is absolutely out of the rotation. This is, this, this is what I've been trying to tell people. And, and finally, right. Some people started picking up on it where they're like the Timberwolves were uniquely positioned to beat the nuggets. Uh, yeah, that's what I've been saying from the beginning. Um, but let me tell you something. The Minnesota Timberwolves are uniquely built to beat everyone left. They are built to beat everyone left on both sides of the ball, their liability. The only thing their Achilles heel is, how well are they going to show up on offense? That is, that is the one question that you have. If there's one team that you question their offense, it's Minnesota. You're not questioning anybody else's offense. You're questioning the Pacers defense, but you're not questioning anybody else's offense. But, but they put so much pressure. On Dallas, because they run Carl Anthony towns at the four, it's just an absolute mismatch. And then they've got Nas read off the bench. Like there's not a single team that's left that is going to be able to, to match up against what they're going to be seeing. Because even if you beat cat off the dribble, he's coming over from behind and you've got go bear in front of you, or you've got Nas read and Nas read can play like a guard. Like there's no one positioned Apples to apples roster to roster to beat this roster. Minnesota. The only way Minnesota loses is if they beat themselves. Now, Jaden McDaniels defending Luca. He's going to be in foul trouble every single game. Luca is for sure going to get him in foul trouble, but you're probably going to see Luca arguing with the refs more this round than last round, because McDaniels, he fouls like every play. He's, he's a little chippy. He's, he's the kind of guy you got to sub out. If he gets a little too hot headed in certain moments, um, you can look to see, I know Luca loves to hunt matchups, look for him to hunt Mike Conley. That's, that's probably what they're going to do is they're going to try and put Mike Conley in the action and see if they can, they can expose that, uh, matchup as best they can. But outside of that, I mean, you, Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels with three seven footers behind him, there's just, and Luka with a, I mean, he's not 100 percent with the knee. I'm taking the Minnesota Timberwolves to win this series. I have them winning in six games. I believe they win game one. They lose game two. They win three, lose four, and then win five and six. That's how I think it goes. I think it's back and forth. It's Haymakers the first four games, and then they tighten up. Last two in a similar way that they did with Denver and they, uh, they win the series. I like it. Um, I think the Mavericks have surprised a lot of people. I think Luca has put himself in a good situation now. And Kyrie is proving to be the perfect counterpart for them. Oh yeah, he's been fantastic. Timberwolves, but I think, I think this is going to go to seven. I truly think this is going to go to seven. I can't. And it's just because it's Luca and Kairi. This isn't 2K. I know the Timberwolves on paper are going to be better. But Luca and Kairi are going to find a way to win three games, I think. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay, let's do something really quick. I want you, in order, to tell me the top five players in the series. In order. In order. One to five. Luca and K Kyrie where I want to throw Rudy go bear. Cause he's just a presence at this point. I'm going to say Rudy then cat. Wow. Okay. That's unexpected. Um, this is how you know that the. Roman is not just a Rudy Gobert hater because to put him at four is a, that's a sign that Roman is not a Rudy hater. Um, Hall of Famer, Rudy Gobert. So, so what you're telling me is Dallas at their best has the best players. They've got, they've got the, the best talent of the series, but Minnesota, but Minnesota has, has more depth. Yes, you can't, you can't trust. You can't trust the bench. Uh, I mean, they just randomly started throwing a hardy back back in there. The Mavericks did. Yeah, well, he helped them a lot, but they just, he, Jason could just randomly switch it up and started throwing people in there, but, well, but the old Tim Hardaway Jr. hasn't been consistent. This is what I'm saying. And Josh, Josh Green, Josh Green doesn't look like he can shoot the ball. No, it's, it's all over the place. But again, all it's going to take is for them to have one good game and oh no, this might go to seven. So I, I trust the team that's been to the Western Conference finals that they can take it to seven, even though they didn't, even when they, they played the Warriors a couple of years ago, but the Timberwolves can just, they can throw so many matchups. I mean, Ant has no issue guarding either Kyrie or Luca. Uh, Jay McDaniel's not going to have any issue guarding Luca. He might have a little bit guarding Kyrie, but he's going to try and guard him. And then, uh, You, you have Nikhil Alexander Walker coming off the bench. Who's just going to be a pested on defense. Yep. Well, they have so many guys that they can throw at them, which is a little bit different than the OKC series. It was Lou Dort or nobody else. Well, and, and you just had young guys that were just falling apart. Like Josh Giddy fell apart, dude. He, he was bad. He was bad. And to be honest, I don't even know how he would play well. It's been such a rough year for him, given everything that's happened in the media and got kicked out of his starting position. Like my goodness, dude. Yeah. He, he got relegated to the bench. They had Gordon Hayward who didn't score a single point. Uh, I just don't think Minnesota is going to fall apart like that. I just don't like the guys that would won't have the ball in their hands enough to do it. It's just Kyrie's good. Kyrie is very good. This series to me comes down to two players one on each team. It's not Luca and it's not Anthony Edwards because I believe Luca is going to he's going to score his 30 a night. You can make it difficult. He might have an off shooting night, but he's, even his off nights are 28 points, 26 points, 16 assists. Yeah. Anthony Edwards. I think he's going to have probably four good games and two bad games. He he'll probably have a 40 ball somewhere in there, a couple 30 pieces, and then some, uh, 16 out of nowhere, just a bad game. That's okay. It's seven game series for a reason. This series comes down to Kyrie and Carl Anthony towns. The whole series comes down to those two players offensively because both players at times in the earlier series, they've kind of disappeared. Like Kyrie has fallen into this habit where he's like two points at the half, four shots at the half, and then he has to have a big second half. Uh, or he just becomes like the ultimate passer and isn't scoring the ball, which, which, which if for me, I love that. I don't want Kyrie to go off. Please pass the ball. Please, P. J. Washington. I'd love to see you shoot it. I don't want to see Kyrie shoot it. That's why I think that's the key matchup of the series. Whoever dominates the series offensively, Kyrie or Karl Anthony Towns, their team's gonna win this. And I, and, and who's gonna defend Karl Anthony Towns? I don't think lively can stop him and I don't think Africa can stop him. The only person that can stop calling city towns is if he keeps doing that stupid hip check at the three point line, stupid hip check, and then, and then looks at the refs like, like, what are you looking like that? Like, stop doing it, stop doing it. That, that is the entire series to me is just those two players. Those are the only two players I'm looking at. That's what they say. Role players are, role players are the series, man. But those guys are one step above a role player. We can't relegate them to role players. No, my bad, my bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you, you, you have your superstars. Yes. And then you have your players that are going to change the series. If you have a superstar meltdown on the shore, like, you have a LeBron 2011, you're not winning the series. We, we understand that. But we expect the stars to be stars, and that's when you look at the others. Agreed. It's going to be a good one. I, I know we're going to see a couple Luka Kyrie masterpieces. I can, I can see the post game interview right now from Kyrie talking about, I'm just so blessed to play this, this game of basketball, but then it's going to be Ant goes for 47 the next game. But the Ant 40 ball is going to have some experience and can really take it to seven. Okay. Okay. Okay. Take a step back. This Mavs team has experience? No. A couple guys have experience, but the team does not. Okay. Yes. This is, like, we're overvaluing experience. Did you forget where PJ Washington came from? From the Hornets. Did you forget where Daniel Gafford came from? They've never been here before. Those guys have never been here. But now they've played a couple playoff series, and they've become trustworthy. But they've never played at this level. Just like nobody Like, what are we doing? They, they've never played at this level. Luka has. Kairi obviously has. Kairi's played beyond this level. He is the, he has the most championship pedigree of anyone remaining in the postseason. That's off to him. I'm not going to say anything about that guy, but like, come on, man. Hey, all I need is those two. They've gotten this far. They haven't even gone to a game seven. That's all I'm going to say. I'm telling you right now, the Anthony Edwards edits are going to be Ant clowning Luka Doncic and him crying to refs. Like, those are gonna be, like, the Not Like Us memes, or the, like, the videos, whatever the, whatever the new hit song is as soon as they start playing, that's what it's gonna be. It's gonna be Luka crying to the refs after, like, game one, when things aren't going his way, and the Timberwolves are up, and they're, and they're winning. Like, you're gonna see him crying to the referees quite a bit. That's one thing we need to watch for. Mavericks, are the Mavericks going to be crying to the refs? We already know what's going to happen. It's not even an if Luca does his thing, uh, before game six, the head, the reporters were like, Luke is going to stop talking to the ref so much. But even during the game, it's like, he, he, he laughs and Uh, they scored on a fast break. His team, uh, they called a timeout and he goes and immediately talks to the ref. It's, it's things like that where you just need to win a basketball game. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that because he's lucky they won the game because it wasn't just that he talked to the refs during the timeout. He spent like half the time out talking to the ref. He wasn't even in the huddle with the team. He was just talking to the referees. And he's, he's, he's freaking lucky. They won because he would have gotten eviscerated for it. And it's just, these are the types of things that I just. The new NBA is so funny to me, because the star players that we grew up watching, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, right? The elite of the elite players, they would get destroyed for doing this stuff. They would get absolutely dog walked by the media. If they, if they acted like this, but like getting somewhat of treatment like that. Okay. But what, how about Jokic? How about Jokic losing a game seven? Yeah, but he's, he's won a championship now. Good man has three MVPs and LeBron won championships and he's to this day still gets torched. For him, it's, it's like, it's more of an expectation thing. Three MVPs, three MVPs. And we talked more about Mike Malone in the postgame interview than, than Jokic. I'm just saying, you can't talk about Jokic. He doesn't care about basketball. I'm just saying, this is new media. It's, it's, it, it proves that none of these guys are really the faces of the league. Now, if Anthony Edwards loses, I'm not gonna be the guy that's gonna say when, but if he loses, I'll tell you what, he may have racked up a lot of fans, but there's a lot of haters too. There's a lot of people that really hate what he's saying. They hate that he curses so much in the post game interviews. They hate that he's Clowning, uh, he's waving goodbye to the fans pointing at fans that he's, he's pointing at the scoreboard to yolkage, man. There's some people out there that just hate that. They just can't handle it. They can't handle it. And so there's a lot of people waiting for his downfall. I think there is in a pivot to maybe a more positive conversation. We've got, we're looking at four stars. Maybe five if you want to go 1A, 1B with Boston that someone's gonna win a ring and I want to know I want to know whose legacy will improve the most by winning and Whose legacy will fall the most by losing? Anthony Edwards, Luka, yes, yes, Anthony Edwards, Luka, Jason Tatum, Tyrese Halliburton, right? If you're picking one guy from every team, those are the four. Improved the most is Luka, 100%. I really, I don't think there's any other player that improves the most. I mean, Jason Tatum, if he wins, it's going to be a finally thing with Luca. It's going to be this guy's still really young and he just won one. This guy should have an MVP. We feel like, and he just won that championship. I feel like his legacy improves the most off of a championship, especially at this age. And what, what was the other side of the question? Who's that hurt the most? Yeah. Who, who get, who like losing whether this round or the next, whose legacy is hurt the most by losing? Tatum. It's Tatum. It has to be to get this far this many times. And only make it to the, if he loses this round, break it up, break it up, get rid of them. Get rid of one of them. Get rid of one of them. We're done with this. You just lost to the Pacers. But if they lose in the finals, it we're having that same conversation that we've been having for now, seven years of this guy, seven years. I, It hurts him the most to lose the Timberwolves and the Pacers. It's it's more young team. Uh, why are they here? I mean, less Timberwolves, less Timberwolves than Pacers. The Timberwolves aren't a young team. They're not young. They've just never been here. Their connection is young. Okay. No, that's fair. That's and we're not used. We're not used to them in the playoffs. They're they're young in terms of playoff runs like we do. Yes. Everybody assumed. Okay. The nuggets you run into the nuggets in the second round. They're going to win it in five, six games, but they just beat the defending champions. They did. It's like, even if they don't make the finals, it's like, this team is very scary going into next year, next two years, that type of thing. This is a make or break year, dude, because their owner just doesn't pay. Over the luxury tax and if they Carl Anthony town, like Anthony Edwards is about to get really expensive. And so there's a really, really good chance that Carl Anthony Towns is gonna get traded like low key. This is really the year you think it's make or break. And Mike Conley's getting old, I think by Conley's retiring at the end of this season. That's why do for me like that's me guys. That is, that is, that's a big, big deal. Especially the Mike Conley, Rudy Gobert connection. Um, if I'm answering that same question, I, I think Anthony Edwards has the most to gain. I think Anthony Edwards has the most to gain because he's 22 years old, which means he won at a younger age than Jordan at a younger age than LeBron. He has enough aura to really be the face of the league. Like, we're reaching that polarizing moment where you either love the guy or you hate the guy. And that is such a big deal in terms of face of the league. Look at Tom Brady. You loved the guy or you hated the guy. Patrick Mahomes. You love the guy or you hate the guy. LeBron James. Kobe Bryant. Like, a lot of these players, you either love them or you hate them. And Anthony Edwards, he is that player right now. He's just edgy enough in, you know, super soft 2024 that if he wins this at 22 years old, he just got a signature shoe. Are you kidding? He'd be the first Adidas player as the best player on the team to win a championship. Like that's a big, this is, it's a, it's a huge, huge deal if he wins this ring. Huge, massive. I think a lot of people forget how young he is too. Like, dude, you think of most of the greats, they don't have rings this early in their career. They really don't. It's usually about when they hit their, their peak, the prime of their career, you know, year six year through year eight. Yeah. That's about the time where they get their first championship. If he gets it this early, He's on a great trajectory, but that's still if, but if he does win this, wow, that's scary. I, this is, this is one of the things that really pisses me off is so many people are like, you can't compare them to Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was six and Oh, in the finals, Michael Jordan, this Michael Jordan, that it's not like there's, there's, there's two levels to this that I think are really important to break down. And one comment, the comment is you have to stop comparing players to a full career. You can't compare Michael Jordan at the end of his career to Anthony Edwards in like the third year of his career. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. It is so stupid. It's so stupid to me. Another a player. can play stylistically like someone else. And it doesn't mean that we're just, we're putting all of the expectations that someone else's entire career had because they can jump like someone else we've seen. They can dunk like someone else we've seen. We're just saying, I've, I've seen this before on television. This reminds me of Jordan. And I appreciate that it's Ant to Jordan more than Ant to Kobe. Because with Kobe, there was more, there was more of an art to the way that he played. It's, like, even early in his career, he also was a better outside shooter than Jordan. Where Anthony Edwards, there's just this raw ability. Just this raw offensive scoring that, that to me, it looks more like Jordan than it does. Kobe personally. But if we go to Jordan's career, I've got his career pulled up right here. 1984, 1985. Did he win a championship? No. 1985, 1986. Did he win a championship? No. 86 to 87. Was he winning a ring in year three? No. Guess what? He was 23 in year three. He did not win a ring. How about 87 88? Did he win a ring? Nope. 88 89. Did he win a ring? Nope. How about 89 90? Did he win a ring? No, no, he didn't. It took him six years. It took him six years to do it. And so we're not comparing Anthony Edwards to championship level Michael Jordan. We're not comparing him to 30 a game. 10 time all defensive like that's the scoring champion. We're not comparing him to that Jordan We're just saying early Jordan where he would just carry his team and go out and try to win games That was running into these buzzsaws in the playoffs Cap it was supposed to lose to Denver that was supposed to be his Boston Celtics That was supposed to be his Boston Celtics matchup And he beat them in seven games. I don't know. Am I crazy? No. I wish we could have had this round as Western Copper Finals. Oh gosh. That would have made it so much better. Oh my gosh. If we could have seen Denver play Dallas. Luca versus the Oakage, the best friends. And then he sees aunt in the, ah, that would have been great, but it continues. Sorry. It would have been great, but no, I, uh, yeah, that's the thing with the, we're not comparing him saying that aunt is Jordan. It's just the way that he plays at such a young age. Yeah. This is, I mean, everybody, if you took somebody and watched, had them watch and or like somebody who doesn't really know the game, I bet if we even asked our mom, like he's probably been in the league for seven or eight years. Like, you know, this, he's 22 years old, he's so young and he's leading his team and now they're in the Western Commerce finals. So like I've said, if, if he even has a finals appearance this young, it's the trajectory is there. It's definitely there. If we go, I'm, I'm pulling up Anthony Edwards, his career stats right now. Just, I just want to take a peek. Like, came into the league at 19. He's 22 now. This is year 4. He played 79 games this season. 79 last season. Does that sound like anybody to you? To me, that sounds like Jordan, who is playing 82 games a year outside of his second year in the league. Like, uh, I mean, obviously, his scoring, 24 a game, 25 a game this year. I just, he's Jordan like, man. He's Jordan like, and he's got a legitimate chance to, To go and win a championship. There's no better year than this year. Oh no. A better year. No. And every year presents different challenges, but this is a great opportunity for him to, to steal one early. If you, if you put Minnesota on the map, I mean, you're a mortal. You did something that Kevin Garnett couldn't do. Like it's a big deal. I mean, the Timberwolves are a bit bigger. I mean, but if it wasn't for Kevin Garnett, they would be a, a wizards. Uh, the Pistons team. Well, the Pistons at least have history. The Pistons have history. Yeah, but the Pistons sold their soul for that championship. They sold their franchise for that one year of winning. I mean, they had a few good years, but that 0 4 championship, they sold their Please let us beat the Lakers. Yeah, they, they sold the, they, they sold their chance at a number one draft pick forever. Chauncey Billups went out and beat Kobe and Shaq. What are we talking about here? I don't know, man. It's uh, I just shake my head. That, that's a, that's a good thing. Cause it's like the bulls are the bulls because of Jordan. Yeah. Uh, the Cavs were made the Cavs because of LeBron. Yep. Is this an opportunity for the Timberwolves to become the Timberwolves? Uh, Best selling jerseys type type of franchise in the future because yeah. Yeah. I don't know We will see we will see what's scary is he can continue to improve What's scary is he can continue to improve. He's not even close to his mid twenties, let alone late twenties. He could do this for a decade, but what we also keep doing in the league right now is as soon as the team wins, we want to claim a dynasty before they've done it again, right? Denver was supposed to be a dynasty. Milwaukee was supposed to be a dynasty. And we have LeBron James and Steph Curry to blame for that. You're, you're right. You're right. You're right. Like they made dynasties, they made dynasties easy to get to the finals. Now, like the, they made playoffs boring because you knew who was going to be there at the end. Like, it was just like, let's fast forward this LeBron one game seven versus the Celtics surprise. Surprise. Yeah, now, now it's, you know, it's who's going to win. It's who's going to win. It is. It's who's going to win. It's who's going to win. Okay. But here's the thing. Even if Boston wins though, that I was thinking name an easier run. Yeah, that's, I mean, but people discredit, they earned the number one seed, which earned them the path that they got. But I mean, Miami, no Jimmy Butler, like, just look at the, the East, the East isn't even fun to watch. You're watching the East as an appetizer, hoping you get a solid Western conference game. That's been me all postseason. This year is kind of a letdown for the league if the Celtics don't make the finals. If the Pacers go to the finals, it is bad for the league. If the Pacers make the finals, the NBA is switching something up on that eastern side. Yeah, because they did not pull ratings. Did you hear the rumor that Minnesota might get moved to the east? If they do an expansion. I have heard that if they do expansion stuff. Yeah. Yeah. The east is and kind of been kind of bad the past few years. So, but yeah, it's really, it's really been Celtics bucks for the past few years. I mean, obviously the heater there, but yeah. There's not as much entertainment on that, on that side. That's for sure. No, but the East really has always had this inevitability. If this isn't a microcosm of what we've seen for since the year 2000, you know, I don't know what is even before that. Cause then you're talking Jordan. Like this is just honestly what the Eastern conference is. It's the West, it's the West and it, and it has been for the better part of three decades. that you, it's so hard to know what you're going to see come out of the Western Conference. I mean, the Spurs won five championships and never won back to back. That's weird. Every other year. Like, that's weird. You know what I mean? Like It's there's so much like that. Uh, I know, I know Oklahoma City lost. I know they, the way they lost a lot of people loved because shade, obviously a foul baiter, not Joel Embiid, but close. Uh, you lump him into that group with Jalen Brunson, Luca Donchic, a couple of these guys, and then he fouls for them to lose the series. I don't think, you know, a game comes down to the final play. There's a lot of plays that lead up to it, but you can't keep all these guys. It feels like you have some players that have, that are kind of all about the same and somebody's got to go. For me, I'm moving Josh Giddey. I think he's, he's the guy to move. Josh Giddey in a first round and a first round pick. That's, that's a lot. I've seen, I've seen some mock trades. I think you move Giddey and a couple first and you will get a baller. Who? I don't know. I think for Giddey and a first round, maybe two. Maybe two at probably to you trying to bring Kevin Durant back. I know the sons aren't doing the trade according to that. Oh, Hey, that is athletic seven footer, defensive seven footer. That is so good. Roman, that is so good. You think, would it take two first round picks, two firsts and Josh Giddey? Yeah, you should, you should trade two firsts. You should trade two firsts. I'm saying, but can they get Lori for Josh Giddey in one first round pick? No, you should go to, but yeah. Okay. See needs to make a move to get one more player that can pair with them. Yes. You need to know what Chet's going to do this off season. Why? Oh, you mean in terms of like improvement? Yes. If he hits the weight room, we'll see. A lot of guys need to hit the weight room. I know they do. Like, they do. I'm just saying. The defensive teams came out. Do you see how many centers on all defensive first team? I mean, the first team is pretty much all centers and then Herb Jones And then the second team is all guards. It's all guards. Yep. The just shows where we're that. That shows where we're at in the NBA right now. How important position bigs are. Yeah. How important guards are right there. The league is ran by bigs. I don't care what you say. The league is ran by bigs. And if you don't want to say cen I'm not saying centers. It's ran by bigs. And what I mean, I've said this multiple times in the postseason. Luka Doncic. is big for his position. Dominates. Where is he right now? He's in the Western Conference finals. The Minnesota Timberwolves have the three trees. They got 37 footers, one that plays like a guard, another. That's one of the best three point shooters in the postseason. And then there's Rudy Gobert, defensive player of the year. Three trees, all a different species. You turn around, you look at the Boston Celtics, their forwards are pushing around Indiana Pacers, like it's Varsity versus JV. I mean, Jason Tatum is playing the four, but he's really a small forward, but the dude is six foot ten. And if Porzingis isn't hurt, then you've got, you're talking about Al Horford coming off the bench for you. So the league's dominated by bigs. And then you start talking about guys, like, you know, you start talking about your Yoka, which is like some of these other guys too. Like, I know everybody loves to see some great guards, but like the league is a lot of it's ran by bigs. It is, it is center and forward heavy right now. That's That's for sure. And that's why somebody like Ant stands out so much because he, we love to see a guard. We love to see a true guard. Yep. The Steph, Steph, like we love to see guards. Wayne, Kobe, Jordan, Steph, cause guards are more fun. They're more fun to watch entertainment. Yep. But like it's a guard, a guard is like a guard's like a pretty girl you see at the club. You know, like you might have a really fun time and this is going to sound crazy, but longterm you want to get married to a big, no ditty, please. No ditty, please. No ditty. No, but you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. You understand what I'm saying? Right. You understand what I'm saying? Up to your comparisons right there. All time, all time centers. It's just, uh, it's a more surefire path to wins. Even because, and I'll tell you, and I'll say it this way, Roman, how many rings does, uh, Steph Curry have? M. J. And uh, phil jackson, he orchestrated 11 of the 11 championships. He won one as a player. He won one as a player with the Knicks, but he orchestrated his offense generated 11 championships and then Steph brings in four more steve Kerr. That's his tree. Okay. So the system, and I think Steve modernized the triangle offense, he modernized it, but the system, that system has generated 15 championships led by guards. There's a very strong argument that you could make that if you took out the triangle offense, championships are won by bigs someday. It's like name, name the champs that are won by guards. That are not, that Phil Jackson or someone related to Phil Jackson was not involved. I'm pissed. That's one ring. The only team that didn't have a top 75 player. That's one ring. Only one. Spurs, but their bigs won them their championships. Yeah. I mean, I mean LeBron's ring. LeBron's a forward. LeBron's rings. LeBron's a forward, he's not a guard. That's true, that's true. Magic, a forward, the Bucks win a championship because they have, they had Kareem and Giannis seven footers, Hakeem Olajuwon, big, you could, you could point to Miami. You could, you could point to Miami, but they still had Shaquille O'Neal. Even though Wade had an incredible run, they still, they still, they still had Shaq. Like, like tell me, tell me I'm on to something, man. I was going to say Warriors, but I mean that's Steve Kerr. Yeah, that is Steve Kerr. Man, stew on that, America. Let me know what you think about that take, because that is piping hot. Straight off. Bigs have been dominating. That if you take out Phil Jackson and his tree, you're winning, the only way you're winning a ring is with the big. Yeah, what is, what is Jordan's career look like if he never gets, gets himself Phil Jackson? Um, bro, we know what it looks like. He doesn't win championships. What are you talking about? How many coaches did he have before Phil? 4? 5 coaches? Yeah, I think it was like 3 or 4 of them. Like, I know a lot of people are labeling LeBron as a coach killer and Kevin Duran as a coach killer. Bro, Kobe went through like 8 or 9 coaches. MJ had to go through 4 or 5 coaches before he got Phil. Without Phil and I'm just not winning. He needed Phil and Scotty. If you have to both of those guys, Phil Jackson is really responsible for the two greatest shooting guards of all time. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And then Anthony Edwards and walks into the room and it's he, this is the issue, Moses. This is what people are talking about right here. No, he, but hear me out. He would have walked into the room. Yeah, he would have to do a lot. To move past Dwayne Wade, who I think is considered the third best shooting guard, even though he is probably the most zesty former NBA player that we have. I believe Anthony Edwards has walked into the kitchen. Okay. He has walked. No, I think he has walked in, but he is not. He there is. There are no seats open at the table. He's walked into the kitchen. The kids table is still there. He's knocked at the door for me. He's awesome. He's I think he's in the kitchen because he's going to the finals. Roman. He's yeah. But when you say that, but he hasn't Moses, you have to wait until he goes, I've told you this every single round. This guy only has a second round win. We got to chill Mo. He hasn't even won his conference yet. Wade one in year three, just saying, where's the Shaquille O'Neal on this team? Rudy Gobert is don't ever put those two in the same year. Don't ever put those two in the same sentence, literally ever again in your life. Rudy Gobert couldn't scratch Shaq's balls, dude. What are you talking about? Rudy Gobert can't scratch Shaq's balls. Don't ever say that to me again. That's his version of Shaq. Don't ever say that again. Will you stop acting like Rudy Gobert does not have four defensive player of the year awards? Would you stop doing that? Have you ever seen Shaquille O'Neal? Yes, I have. Why? I'm not saying he's the same player. I'm saying that that is his Shaq. How can you say it's not? Are you going to say cat is the Shaq? No, I don't think there is a Shaq. That's what I'm saying. I think there is. I think I don't think so. The year it is. Really? Because when he touches the ball on offense, you close your eyes and pray to God that he passes it and it's not a turnover. But he also holds the defending, the defending champs to 80 points, 70 points, anchoring the defense. So he did. No, he did that. He, he did do that. That is, that is true. But only time is going to tell, Mo, time's going to tell only time. He's knocking at the door. He's knocking. He's not in the room yet. By the time we record this next episode, we're already going to have new narratives being written. We're going to see multiple games. The Indiana plays and we'll have multiple games under our belt in the Timberwolves series as well. We have a lot of basketball to look ahead, uh, to, to look forward to. This is like the last week that we get, that we get ball every single night. And so we have to enjoy it while we can, because guys, it's almost over. The season is almost over, so we're going to enjoy it as much as we can. If you feel differently. Or if you agree with me, right, if you're on the money side, which really has been me all year long, uh, let me know in the comments, let me know in the comments, like, do you agree with Mo? Do you agree with row? Do you agree with your team is in the Western Congress finals. The team that I said people should watch out for is in the Eastern Congress finals. It's true. But one of us looks really good and the other just choked game one You haven't even played game one. You're dang freaking right and you're lucky We haven't because we're gonna win that one, too If you're not following us on or if you're not following us already, please we are on instagram Facebook, if you use that Twitter, if you, or if you call it X, we're on every social media platform. So please give us a follow at swishless pod. We're on all of your favorite podcast platforms as well. Um, so please, if you enjoyed this episode, share it with somebody, share it with somebody that needs to learn about basketball needs to needs to, you know, improve their game a little bit. Uh, maybe needs to fix their takes. Uh, feel free to send them this episode and please. Check, check in with us next week. Uh, season's almost over. So there's not very many episodes left. So please make sure you tap in with the at switch list podcast. Roman, send us off. It is the conference finals. Everybody let us know your thoughts. Let us know what you agree with disagree with. We both got, we both got our opinions and we're going to tell them. So we want to hear yours, too. He's got Minnesota. I don't know who I've got, but I did say the Pacers would make it this far. But, uh, like he said, we're on all social medias. If you're not following us, if you're not liking, if you're not subscribing, if you're not interacting with us, it's getting ridiculous. It's really getting ridiculous. Conference Finals. Moses and Roman, Episode 21, Season 2. Switch List Podcast. We are here.